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If you want to, sure. ;)

I'd almost expect something from one or two of the Taki teams because of the tension over Sodegaura.

by PhhtPhht, 20 Apr 2012 01:48

Okay, I guess I should flesh out the two Konoha rookie teams (from Tora trouble) at least a bit. Anything other teams? Want to roll for which teams from what villages the kids will notice (or get into verbal arguments with) first?

by spudman84spudman84, 12 Apr 2012 20:51

Thanks, that does clear things up a bit as far as how the system works.

Alright, so no fleshing out yet…shouldn't be too hard to come up with descriptions/stats as we need them.

As for boys and girls on the teams. How about these?

Ame:
3 girls
3 boys
2 girls, 1 boy
1 girl, 2 boys

Iwa:
1 girl, 2 boys (we think…damn Iwa gender confusion)
1 girl, 2 boys

Kiri:
1 girl, 2 boys
2 girls, 1 boy
1 girl, 2 boys

Konoha:
1 girl, 2 boys
1 girl, 2 boys
2 girls, 1 boy
2 girls, 1 boy
2 girls, 1 boy
3 girls
3 girls
3 boys
3 boys
1 girl, 2 boys (Tora trouble team)
2 girls, 1 boy (Tora trouble team)

Kumo:
2 girls, 1 boy
2 girls, 1 boy

Kusa:
2 girls, 1 boy

Suna:
2 girls, 1 boy
2 girls, 1 boy
1 girl, 2 boys
1 girl, 2 boys
1 girl, 2 boys
3 boys
3 girls

Taki:
1 girl, 2 boys
1 girl, 2 boys
1 girl, 2 boys
2 girls, 1 boy
2 girls, 1 boy

Uzu:
3 girls
1 girl, 2 boys
1 girl, 2 boys

by spudman84spudman84, 10 Mar 2012 22:30

With Shadowrun, you're only using d6. The number of D6 rolled for a check is determined by the check requirements. A five or six on a die is a hit. Opposed checks are simply having both sides/people roll, and comparing total number of hits. Equal totals is stalemate, otherwise a clear winner or loser (with the difference between totals indicating how successful the winner was).

Thresholds are easy. If the total number of hits is equal to or greater than the threshold number (1, 2, 3, 4) set for the check, the person passes the check. For the most part, it'd be each person doing the check. To make things easier with the NPCs, I did the team threshold that would simply be how many team members need to pass to get the team by that obstacle. And simplified team assistance on checks.

For instance, that one team that managed to fail to locate the test site? The roll had no 5s or 6s, and thus zero hits. Check was threshold 1, so the team needed one hit or more to pass. Since I was doing it as a team effort, there was a single team check rather than separate checks for each teammate.

At most, we only need to provide desc/etc for those that arrive at the first test site. I might say to only decide team composition (1 girl + 2 boys, 2 girls + 1 boy, 3 girls, or 3 boys) for the teams, then further flesh out any team you want the players to run into. Then do any checks for teams that the players spot or can see the result from where they are. And then do all the other checks before the teams get to the finish line (and determine how many made it before the players did).

However, if teams get eliminated during the round, then we don't need anything on them because they're just nondescript genin unless we have them run into one of the PC teams. Given that those eliminations are during the round, I decided not to touch on those checks yet.

We honestly don't need desc/stats on teams until, at the latest, the end of the second stage. Prior to that, we only need to flesh out a team if it'll be encountering the players in some way.

Konoha has 10-11 NPC teams left. 10 if we have two full PC genin teams active, 11 if we only have one. Total, they're 12 teams out of the initial 15 actually going into the first test.

If you want to flesh them out, just add — under the appropriate country — a folding list container so the entry doesn't get super long.

[[div class="foldable-list-container"]]
* Team name/whatever
 * desc/stats stuff team member 1
 * desc/stats stuff team member 2
 * desc/stats stuff team member 3
[[/div]]
by PhhtPhht, 03 Mar 2012 04:45

Never really used the Shadowrun system myself, so could you explain how the multiple dice checks are applied and how the thresholds are met or not?

I assume we only have to provide descriptions/basic sheets for teams that arrive at the first test site. Which, if I'm reading those numbers right, is…

Ame: 4 teams
Iwa: 2
Kiri: 3
Konoha: 10
Kumo: 2
Kusa: 1
Suna: 7
Taki: 5
Uzu: 3

I'll start brainstorming more on them this weekend, though I want to adjust Nishiyori and Tsukiko's sheets to the new system (with specializations) to practice.

by spudman84spudman84, 02 Mar 2012 05:22

ahaha, actually the genjutsu check should be threshold 1 (D-C rank genjutsu), but let's just say that Higure went above and beyond the call of duty on the set-ups? ^^;;;

Whoops by PhhtPhht, 11 Feb 2012 12:13
PhhtPhht 31 Dec 2011 23:33
in discussion Hidden / Per page discussions » Exams: S1 Chunin Exam

It could somewhat be what the station is about, if someone looks underneath the underneath. ;)

Dust's dual-element state is on the RP wiki under bloodline combination. So if they check the wiki, they'll know. :D

As for teams, I think I'll split an entry off the exams entry to start work on them.

The RP dice system, I think, is mostly workable as is. Located in the drafts section. I don't like the Byakugan jutsu rankings though. Wish Kishi had bothered to rank to those (and Sharingan "jutsu") instead of going 'herp derp bloodline jutsu' and not giving a rank.

by PhhtPhht, 31 Dec 2011 23:33

True, Ibiki didn't test for those types, but things can change over time. If Tsukiko did help planning certain parts of the test, she would remember lessons like that from Nishi.

Anyway, that station is fine, I guess. Whether or not testing for micromanaging and/or heroic types is an actual part of the test or isn't even mentioned would be up to us. If we don't mention it, it isn't what that station is about.

Aw…I was kind of thinking of hinting at actual quotes from real people or actual riddles that they the players could figure out on their own/do research for. Then again, that probably makes me a bit of a jerk. XD

The chunin motto should show up, though. So that works. Although, would people know your version of the dust release is only wind and earth?

—-

We've (mostly you, heh) have got the actual structure of the tests sorted out, but there are a few other things we need to figure out before the exams. The npc teams that will get more fleshed out and who will control them, for one.

On that mercenary clan involved in Sodeguara, serbii mentioned to me to talk to ewuvi about that, being her creations.

The roleplaying system: we should iron that out. You suggested something based on Shadowrun, right?

by spudman84spudman84, 27 Dec 2011 08:49

Hm.

mid-July - Aborted assassination attempt on the Lord
(mid-July to mid-August - likely end point of Shirotori Clan working for Sodegaura)
Oct 18 - Chunin Exams start

Maybe other Konoha teams were sent to do discrete sabotage of various stuff to delay Sodegaura's split, and Konoha has stepped up border patrols between Sodegaura and Waterfall/Grass/Iron Countries to reduce the ease of slipping in Taki teams and supplies to beef up Sodegaura in preparation for secession. As a result, Sodegaura is just now (mid-Oct) getting back to the point of being ready to break away, and Taki decides to show up Konoha in the Chunin Exams to make Waterfall look stronger going into the secession.

PhhtPhht 17 Dec 2011 12:53
in discussion Hidden / Per page discussions » Exams: S1 Chunin Exam

Basically, you need 3 pieces minimum to get into the exit area. But that requires leaving two people behind (barring elemental/kage bunshin or doton/similar technique to hold the pieces in place) and therefore is pretty much certain fail. Getting all six pieces means everyone gets in and you'll pass (if you still have your team's scroll intact and unopened, and no dead teammates). Having 4-5 pieces means someone'll likely get left behind (depending on how fast/slow the door/gate shuts and the bunshin/jutsu thing), and pass/fail depends on the decision making process of who stays behind if someone is left outside when the thing finishes shutting.

Well, technically the overly heroic cases wouldn't necessarily be caught by Ibiki's question either (as shown by Naruto). I don't think adding 'infinite tries' plus penalties would negate the point of the station. After all, it's 180 seconds to figure out the test/puzzle whatever and every time you screw up, your teammates pay the price. That could weed out overly heroic types. OTOH, they never really checked for micromanaging and/or overly heroic issues in the Exam we saw. So we could just leave it as is and not worry about eliminating certain cases deliberately.

How about using the Chunin motto decided by the Sandaime Hokage and tying it to ninjutsu elements? Opening the safe would be done by inputting the combination via pushing the kanji for each element/combination.

  • "If you lack Heaven, seek wisdom, be prepared." (Fuuton/Wind)
  • "If you lack Earth, run in the fields, seek advantages." (Doton/Earth)
  • The elements above form this bloodline combination. (Jinton/Dust; Luckily, I decided to ignore the tri-element nature of Dust for the RP, and so we don't have to worry about Katon/fire in there)
by PhhtPhht, 17 Dec 2011 12:53

On another topic, serbii provided some insight into what she had in mind for sodegaura/waterfall country.

PM serbii: Hmm, there was going to be a coup in waterfall, well attempted, and it was going to turn to full civil war. That lord guy in Sodegaura was going to support the people trying to take it in return for land etc in waterfall and basically failing to kill him lead to the coup stating and civil war XD

She had not set a date for it. Whether that attempted coup is still forming, currently happening, or the civil war is already resolved (one way or another) at the time of the exams is up to us.

by spudman84spudman84, 17 Dec 2011 04:35

So…those that refuse the station can still pass the Second Stage, but it would be more difficult for them (having not gotten the pieces from this station)?

I guess that works, but telling the genin particular conditions of the test (infinite tries, consequences…wouldn't that negate the "Ibiki point" of this station?

Either way, there should be a way to eliminate the overly heroic cases somewhere in the second stage. Do these methods for the station do that?

For the safe/clue station what would be the "other way" other than a simple intelligence or wisdom roll?

The numbers or words for the combination we can mold around whatever clues we choose. It could be as simple as the answers to riddles. Another method would be the clues being in code. Intelligence/wisdom/skill rolls help crack the code and reveal a passage (perhaps an actual famous quote) or number.

by spudman84spudman84, 17 Dec 2011 02:57
PhhtPhht 16 Dec 2011 10:22
in discussion Hidden / Per page discussions » Exams: S1 Chunin Exam

If we look at the stated rules of his test, it's not so different. If you decided not to take the 10th question, you have the option of trying the Exam again later on. Here, if you decide not to take the station, you have the option of trying it later on in the Stage's time frame. With Ibiki, taking the 10th question and failing it prevents you from ever taking the Exam again (according to his announced rules). But there are other ways of getting a promotion to Chunin. Here, taking the test and failing prevents you from ever doing that station again this Stage. But there's still other stations that you can get enough pieces from to complete the stage. In both cases, the decision to take the question/test in the face of the possible consequences of failure without knowing what the question/test actually involves is the important thing.

Though, what if the rules were made so that you have infinite attempts to complete the test (within the test window), but each incorrect solution applies a (random, possibly lethal) penalty to the other two rooms?

And I just realized: we have a station that uses a set of clues to determine the combination to a safe. Do we actually need to come up with a set of clues, or just find some other way to determine if they figured it out?

by PhhtPhht, 16 Dec 2011 10:22

Maybe not…but the 'dangers' could be genjutsu or mundane illusions/parlor tricks.

It's kind of different than Ibiki's question. With his question the kids failed if they refused the question but there was the added condition if they take the question and fail they never get the chance to take the exams again. With this station as it is there is an unknown test that they get one shot at, but if they walk away they fail anyway, right? What is there to lose from trying?

Micromanagers would probably be weeded out before trying the station (if there is something to lose from trying), but the martyr/hero complexes might need to actually "see" their friends in immediate danger for those issues to kick in. Whether actual danger or genjutsu and/or parlor tricks, so long as the kids believe it during the test. Unless you can come up with some kind of cost to trying and failing the station that would catch the hero types in their weak spot?

by spudman84spudman84, 16 Dec 2011 05:04
PhhtPhht 12 Dec 2011 10:57
in discussion Hidden / Per page discussions » Exams: S1 Chunin Exam

But do they actually need more physical danger than everything else in the exam stage already? I see it as more like Ibiki's 10th question. If you take the question/test in the face of the consequences, without knowing anything about the actual question/test, you pass.

by PhhtPhht, 12 Dec 2011 10:57

Testing trust in their teammates to do their jobs is important. A leader needs to be able to send people into danger, risking their lives, and not be consumed by the need to directly protect them or micromanage them. That aspect of the test would weed out micro-managers and the martyr/hero complex cases.

This is partly why I mentioned the possibility of there being physical risk to the paths (room filling with water, spikes in the walls slowly closing in, etc.) and there being moments where the genin are shown their teammates having some trouble and have the chance (at least they'd think so) to intervene and help them.

by spudman84spudman84, 10 Dec 2011 08:04
PhhtPhht 09 Dec 2011 05:55
in discussion Hidden / Per page discussions » Exams: S1 Chunin Exam

No matter how much I'd love to do that for the sheer amusement factor, I think I'd have to pass. However, I think I'll have Higure as second stage proctor (due to the original shinobi handling that being in the hospital because something he ate didn't agree with him), and that sounds like a wonderful way to freak out the genin right after the second stage is complete.

I can kinda see the multi-path test, but have to ask: how will showing they trust their teammates to complete a task show that they're ready for Chunin? Though… What if we have three rooms. Each Genin is responsible for completing a task in one room that'll help unlock the exit door. If a genin screws up their task, door doesn't open and the team fails the station and can't retake. And they have 3 minutes to complete the task, which means there's no way for someone to do either other teammate's work for them. The kicker? Once they get in the rooms and locate the task? It's plugging geometric shape blocks into matching holes. The test is to see if the teammates trust each other to complete an unknown task within a time limit, not how difficult the task might be.

Okay, I can see this as a station. And if they have 2-3 sets of these rooms in the building, there's not much chance of needing a queue without having a large building.

by PhhtPhht, 09 Dec 2011 05:55
PhhtPhht 09 Dec 2011 05:18
in discussion Hidden / Per page discussions » Exams: S1 Chunin Exam

The incap team test would still be in there. The two test different things. AIT test sees what a genin would do if they came across an incapacitated team that needs assistance. The other test sees if a genin knows their limits, thinks of the team, and understands that not all choices on missions are solely pass/fail.

I don't think it endorses giving up the mission objective to save yourself in context. Your team is facing off against an unknown opponent that's pretty strong. You know there are other sets of the 'mission objective' available to grab. This is similar to, say, having encoded information or the like and knowing you have time to recover it before it's decoded. Do you surrender the stuff now and plan how to recover the objective when you're not at a complete disadvantage, or do you fight and possibly die now to protect the objective? One option allows you the chance to recover from losing it. The other does not and also definitely costs the village your team.

At least, that's how I view it. Though technically, the mission objective is to deliver the unopened scroll the team was given at the start of the test. The pieces just allow them to access the area where they'd hand it over. :)

by PhhtPhht, 09 Dec 2011 05:18

I just had another thought for a potential test. Something to test public speaking, diplomatic, or general people skills. Chunins don't do that sort of thing on the scale of kages, of course, but they ought to effectively communicate and present themselves to their team and clients.

Sure, the finals present an opportunity to put on a good show and show themselves off, but that isn't what I mean here.

*chunin hopeful stands in front of a panel of senior ninja and the Fire Lady*

"Tell us why you should be a chunin. You have one minute."

Maybe even have the genin interviewed in their underwear for full "Oh Dear Lord, I've had this nightmare" affect.

As for the setting of the multi-path test…maybe a large building? It doesn't have to be a multi-pathed obstacle course, I think the key is the genin being able to work towards an obective even if they're not right next to each other and able to trust their comrades to do their job, just as a leader needs to trust their subordinates.

by spudman84spudman84, 08 Dec 2011 01:58

The interrogation/prisoners' dilemma test could work that way. I don't think Team 7 would have taken the bait, but not going to bother arguing it.

I assume the "dead proctors" would replace the "incapacitated team" test, yes? The dead proctors with the killer still there would lead the genin to conclude the "killer" is going beyond the exams and attacking Konoha ninja. Konoha genin have the added incentive that they should live to report that information.

At the same time, though, it could be seen as endorsing giving up the mission objective to the enemy to save yourself.

by spudman84spudman84, 08 Dec 2011 01:37
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